Instances: Return with Honor

First, I would like to thank Saberwing for the awesome job you guys do with helping people who are unfamiliar with some of the toughest quests/instances in this game with ease. Most of us are on the 'elite' end when it comes to this game though this is something that we should not take pride in, but our ability to help people through the more difficult aspects of Star Wars Galaxies.

That being said, I am disappointed in the way some of our groups have gone as of late and I only have one request.

If you do not have time for the instance, do not join the instance group.

Granted, if you find a life issue comes up or Mom is yelling at you, find a friend to replace you before up and leaving so that the group doesn't have to spend the next 10 minutes of their time searching for someone - this is rude. To not do this is a violation of our motto. Not that our motto is a law or a rule that must be followed - but it is expected from Sabers.

We have a name, you have a name in SWG that is worthy of respect and we desire Sabers to act in a manner worthy of the respect and honor of the community.

I ask that this not just be for our instance groups but any instance group anyone should find yourselves in unless it is implied that the group is disbanding to go kill eachother at Restuss.

This is something I wanted to address before it reached epidemic proportions as it seems to be a growing trend and wanted to bite the head of the snake before we ourselves were bit.

Keep up the good work Sabers!

I can't agree with this more. Part of the reason I'm still working on my first 5 piece is because of the number of instances I've had to turn down due to time constraints. I can accept that when it's due to me living in CA and playing on an East Coast server; I'm lucky that since the FCTS, there are a lot of groups running right after instance reset when I'm almost always on. But it drives me nuts when I run all over to get buffed, then have to wait at the entrance because someone dropped out unexpectedly. Really, it's just common courtesy.

There is nothing more statement making when someone drops out of a group for whatever reasons from those previously mentioned to someone who ends up getting upset over something and pouts about it . This behaviour sends a wrong message to those we pick up along the way to run instances with us . It projects the wrong image .

I would respectfully ask if someone gets mad about something and they feel they got to drop out halfway through . To suck it up enough finish the instance then quietly bow out after the instance . Sometimes it's hard to find replacements halfway through instances .Other times It becomes immpossible to continue with the instance due to known bugs . When the instance becomes bugged up because of it . It essentially jobs over the whole group out of completing the instance an gaining that hard earned token . Resulting in a waste of hours for nothing an bitter feelings by the remaining group .

I've seen people get so upset by such things they resort to filing a ticket to gm's asking the gm's to see if the person(s) who leave halfway through instances an bug it up . Constitutes grieving . Which SoE begins investigating an if the bug was caused by such actions . Lately people doing it been found guilty an given account suspensions .

Now if that doesn't end up projecting the totally wrong image I dunno what else would , apart from purely ninja looting a rare drop loot .

Soooo in closing I'm going to ask we as a guild put together an outline of conduct based upon respect and common sense .Specificly to deal with how we are going to run instances as a guild .

eg We have a set person(s) who are the group leaders , who within the group will lead the instance , make the descions of which people to assign to which area's . How Loot is to be dealt with . Who is doing what in each phase of the instances .

I know most of us have done the instances more then once . But in my humble experiance I think thier's only a small group of 3 to 4 folks who understand the instances enough they are capable to lead them .

It should be the group leader who leads and calls the shots , that has a working knowledge of each instance the group enters . If they do not , then they should turn over the reigns to another in the group who can do it . This isn't a popularity contest or a democracy . It's about who has the experiance with instances to know what to do through out the instance and who can/ should be assigned the tasks required for completion of the instance .

Now as for group loot setting . This one's a dicely and delicate issue . We are used to master looter an then rolling on the loot . This works great if we are an entire group filled with SBR personal . When we have so much as 1 or more group spots filled with none sbr personal , I don't consider the group a guild group but a Pug ( pick up group ) . Under these conditions loot by our normal guild loot doesn't work . We need a better system .

I dispise the random system for it's inherit flaws . Free for all opens it up to loot macro whores and ninja looters . Lotto seems to work . It gives everyone a fair and equal oppertunity to choose if they want the loot or not . If they do then the game assigns who wins . IS that a perfect system ? Hell no ! but when I've used it on instance runs . I get far less greif and loot aggrivations with the lotto system . We have to remember with the FCTS we have gotten alot of new faces on the server .

AN each transfer group has thier own ways of doing things . Sometimes comprimising for the greater good is required . Other times it's a matter of smacking the transfers over the heads for doing dumb newbish things . Other times it's a matter of paitence and playing the role of teacher . I've found that a large bulk of the transfers have never actually completed many of the heroics to any degree of success . While others have done them with success . Bottom line we have to be paitent , open minded and show tolerance . For someday those transfers may well end up your guild mate .

Again none of this is set in stone here , just addressing things I feel we should examine as a guild . Were large enough to field an full instance group as a guild , It's time we took some responsiblity to lead by example and having a concrete plan of action .

Peace out an remember it's a game were supposed to all be having fun . When someone isn't having fun somethings wrong and it has to be fixt ^~!

This is one of the main reasons you don't see me in game much. I would love to do an instance or two with everybody, but its hard to get the time all at once to go through start-finish.

Thus if I can't be there to finish, I don't start, 'cause it really sucks when your beating an instance until half the group members have to leave in the middle

Doc you rock !!! we'd love to have your bothan bastard self with us in instances .

LOL, Doc, this is not something that usually happens once the instance starts.

Kateria, although I agree with the bulk of your post. I'm not going to outline a guild code of conduct for instances - this thought actually infuriates me because we as Saberwing shouldn't need this AT ALL.

Simple common sense dictates that you don't leave the instance in the middle unless it is dire circumstances, listen to voice/read group chat and follow directions, and do your part to make the instance go smooth, AND HAVE FUN.

When it comes to loot, I prefer we do list names and loot then I roll or have people roll for themselves -I would be happy to grant that concession- and then distribute loot according to highest roll first. The reason I like to do this is because it spreads out loot to all participating rather than one lucky roller *moi* getting all the loot all the time. People deserve to be rewarded and if we rolled on all the loot individually there'd be instances such as EK where some people would get left out. Fair to all members of the group and not supportive of the elitist dice rollers.

Sure on lotto people get to choose, but I'm inclined to distrust any method used by SOE. I also don't like it for the window it pops up while I'm trying to kill things - I find that horribly annoying.

Ohh I agree that pop up window in middle of trying to kil lstuff is HIGHELY Annoying ... Hell when we were killing minder of weak wills I had my whole screen blotted out by 10000000000000000000000000000000000 pop up windows spamming me from the aoe kills . It was hard to keep mobs agroed . An I agree any loot system offered by soe is flawed . Just suggested lotto being the lessor of the evils availble .

master looter with dice rolls option I don't have a problem with , but you haven't been with some the pick up groups filled mostly with transfers who will scream moan piss an bitch 7 ways to sunday an back again . Over that method of loot . Not to mention most of them demand it be random on loot or lotto . When it doesn't happen they tend to either 1) kick you from the group , or 2) they drop from the group . Either way it's an annoying thing . Too many people care more about loot an it's distribution then about the token an working as a team . Sad yes ...but it's becoming a common trend .

I also agree we shouldn't have to come up with a guideline of conduct either ... but lately the fact we even have to have this thread is scary enough that maybe we do need one .

I agree 100% with said things above.. as for myself I am one of them elitists.. if I know I can't be there in the end I simply tell you people that I cannot manege to find the time to do it as it is, in which would only be fair and best to everyone.

I hate aswell that someone needs to leave during the instance, I got respect if some real crisis just happens.. but it is not that part I would go ballistic about, it would be if the person already knew he would not be able to do that step or whatever.

Also ninja looting the boss drops...if I am doing stuff with a guy that does that it means I refuse to go with that guy EVER again, rolling for stuff or reasoning that hmm he is a BM let him have the DNA or hmm he is a bounty hunter and he really needs that rifle.. well then in group it would be need before greed as I look upon several matters.

I would get pissed if someoen in group wins a wampa DNA for then me finding the same person selling it on the forums when I did alot of the work to obtain it, and if I ever see that in guild at any present point.. then I am out of SWG for sure.. or rather would feel really hurt if you would put that up as a kind of scenario, mainly because I dont charge anything for what I craft among the guild.

I fight for SBR and in ways in how to strenghten SBR, so in any given situation I would not like to be punished either way for doing such.. neither would any of you guys as it is, it happens when some people in guild gets very interested in space as speaking for myself that I build them a 150m+ loadout they would be able PvP with if they want to get into for real that is, or spending countless hours finding out in what to do to help you guys better that way, but it requires a kick back of some sort of speak as in being very engaged in stuff.

I don't support the LoLProfession thing.. I only support stuff if there is a meaning about it and that stuff would be used for a purpose, and in any case I would help out or give advice to solve the riddles if posible.

If transfers know how to run the instance - I have no problem with alternative loot methods. If they have no clue - I WILL ninja loot it all and distribute it my way. They must be taught the way of Starsider.

And you all know how much I love loot and you know I can ninga things faster than dirt getting caught on my shoes by walking. I'm so fast people think I have a macro. Ooooh yeah - the days of the ninja Bothan...

I stopped doing instances with people I don't know and are not in the guild . Less dissapointment . Plus other then 2 more ek runs , I really don't need to run instances unless it's helping the guild with getting some heroic jewlery .

I wont go with the lottery option set up ever again here. and I wont go with any groups that has a crooked version of how boss loot should be shared and I only want to go again if it is need before greed.

Would make no point if I rolled for a saber schematic, but would start doing it if it is all a greed thing among other things as well.

this is why I prefer to run instances as a full guild group . Or doing them with the force /troop , hero/ NL groups . Loots not argued over . and all the above groups don't suck . I know with those groups or mixtures of that instances will be completed .

It's the pick up groups consisting of 90% server transfer noobs I got no time for . they don't listen well , they don't like to do things starsider's way . An they have retarded standerds for looting . I spare myself alot of time and grief by avoiding those groups .

Now not all transfers are bad either . Thier has been a few fun transfers that have come over . That entertainer main in dant MO , sugarlizard comes to mind. She's a blast .

Ok. First off, Sugarlizard is a wicked name.

That said, I think we are making this too hard. I know we can't avoid the time issues, or dropping out of a game if RL issues come up, but that is just nitpicking. In the end, it is only a game remember.

I won't even go into all guild groups. We have always been fair and partial, and I love our guild for that. We truly do have honor. Now, As far as groups with non - guild personnel... Well. I say we just set the leader to master loot, and if they don't like it then tough cookies.

I am always down for more instances on weekdays.

hehe sugarlizzard could charm the anger outa of an unhappy rancor . And she's left quor speachless ! . That's gotta be worth some bonus points . *snickers* . Downside is she's an imperial at heart . But she doesn't let that get in the way of buffing any who politly ask her .

Well I'll be honest...I will take pickup groups for TK and MAYBE Hoth..only because you really have to suck and I mean baaaadd to fail TK..Hoth isn't hard either but you do need an experienced group.

Most of the loot is useless to me so loot choice doesn't really matter to me. I do agree that lottery can be annoying with the pop up window coming up while your trying to fight.

The only time master loot doesn't really work is if there is Jedi specific loot being dropped because its most likely going to be no trade. I always consider need before greed and I have turned down quite a few things because of that.

What we all need to remember is that the ultimate goal is to have fun. SBR has always been that way.